Power of Flowers with Holly Berry
Holly Berry is the founder of aNatural Design, where she connects people to nature through the language of flowers. She shares the gifts of the Zen feelings that come from a Pacific Northwest hike and walking in an arboretum to help melt away the concern and worry in your day.
LISTEN to our complete interview with Holly.
IN THIS EPISODE
[00:56] Holly Berry on what she is most passionate about [02:13] Holly Berry on what attracts her to nature [04:11] Holly Berry on her first floral designer job [07:05] Holly Berry on her inspiration for event design [11:22] Holly Berry on her creative process [15:33] Holly Berry on how she makes floral shawls [17:20] Holly Berry on her work in set design [18:56] Holly Berry on her botanical wing creation [21:50] Holly Berry on her warehouse expansion [26:10] Holly Berry on her book [31:38] Holly Berry on her next goal [32:18] Holly Berry on working on the “Positive Talk Radio” show [35:05] Holly Berry on the importance of experiencing nature [36:42] Holly Berry on the effects of plants [37:43] Holly Berry on supporting female business owners [46:11] Holly Berry on her dream for women [48:22] Holly Berry on advice to her younger self [54:01] Holly Berry on her definition of success [57:04] Holly Berry on her mantra [58:55] Holly Berry on her proudest achievement [01:00:59] Holly Berry on “the power of Passionistas” [01:02:06] Holly Berry on a female icon she would be
Passionistas: Hi, we're sisters Amy and Nancy Harrington, the founders of The Passionistas Project Podcast, where we give women a platform to tell their own unfiltered stories. On every episode, we discuss the unique ways in which each woman is following her passions, talk about how she defines success, and explore her path to breaking down the barriers that women too often face.
Today, we're talking with Holly Berry about the power of flowers. Holly is the founder of “ANatural Design,” where she connects people to nature through the language of flowers. She shares the gifts of the zen feelings that come from a Pacific Northwest hike and walking in an arboretum to help melt away the concern and worry in your day.
So please welcome Holly Berry.
Holly: Thanks so much for having me today.
Passionistas: It's so great to have you here. We're really excited for this conversation. We've been looking forward to it for a while. So, Holly, what are you most passionate about?
Holly: Well, that's a long list. Let's see. I have three photo shoots scheduled this year, so I've been having a lot of fun collaborating with, like, the makeup artists, the photographers, the models, all of that on the side. And that's, like, one of the first things I'll do when I wake up in the morning or one of the last things I'll do, you know, when I'm falling to sleep, is catch up on the IMs and help with, like, the project management part of it, make sure I got all my materials for the, like, floral or botanical. Sometimes they want me to do, like, the stage design, stage setting, and stuff. So that's been a big part of it. I recently started finally being able to shift to create digital products for the company. And so that's been a long time goal that had to wait until I graduated, ‘cause I was, like, working full time in school full time. So that shift just now--I think I originally identified I wanted to do that in 2020--so just now, I got the first two DIY bouquet kits up in our Etsy shop over the last month.
Passionistas: That's amazing. So everything you do, even the, like, digital products, everything centers around flowers, right? So what is, where does that passion come from? What, was it something in your youth that, you know, attracted you to nature?
Holly: So I grew up in a place where we had lots of land, and it was, like, near mountains, trees and water. And it was one of those childhoods that I wish every child could have, where you were allowed to go out as soon as you woke up and just be home by dinner. And so the, that peacefulness kind of--like Nancy read in the bio off my Patreon—having, like, that close, like, experience of that complete peacefulness with nature as a child is something that I wish everyone could experience. And a lot of times, you can only do that if you're, like, in a greenhouse surrounded by plants or on a trail walking with the forest around you.
And when I was in high school, I believe the English teacher was--yeah, high school--one of the English teachers had an assignment, and she said, “Write about any job you would want, if you got to pick your own job.” And so I was like, "Okay, well, what would I wanna do that wouldn't sound like actual work?” And I'm like, “How could I play with, you know, plants and flowers without, you know, having to necessarily dig a hole, you know? Or like, chop wood?” And so being a florist is what I put and what I wrote this essay about. Well, she took that paper and gave it to the math teacher. And he was this really, really amazing, like, he would bend over backwards to try to help the kids, and his wife actually owned a flower shop. Through the grapevine at the school, his wife ended up contacting me and was like, “Hey, you know, we need help. Do you want to come work here?” And so that was my first experience working around flowers, was--and it was all just the grunt work. But it was really important to learn how to process the flowers, clean the buckets, you know, keep the shop clean, serve the customers, at a pretty young age, and that's that was my first introduction to it.
Passionistas: That's incredible. So then how did it go from there? Like, what was your first job as, like, a floral designer?
Holly: Yeah, yeah. I moved to Seattle when I was twenty, and I turned twenty-one that same year, and it was one of those restart buttons. I, like, showed up with 2,000 dollars in my pocket and, like, you know, all the optimism in the world, and luckily at that age, you have the energy as well. No clue what cost of living in Seattle was like or anything like that, but the first job, you know, it was kind of that reset. So I was looking through newspapers, like actually printed newspapers at the time, and there was an ad in there for a florist. And so I was like, “Well, let's see what happens.” And I applied for it. And they had me do a live demonstration of it. Luckily, from high school on when I would help at florist shops, I had learned enough from just taking home all the extra throwaway flowers and practicing with them at home, that by the time I got there to actually apply for a job and do a demonstration in front of them--which I was really nervous. I was like, you know, and hands were a little shaking and everything--but I was able at that point to put together something that was worthy of them offering me the job. And so I took it. And that was my very first job in Washington.
Passionistas: And so you've now got your own floral design company called “ANatural Design.” So how did that come about? Why, when and why did you finally strike out on your own?
Holly: Every holiday--so I've had a career in industries that, in my mind, would pay better, be more secure--but every holiday, florists have to hire extra help, especially for Valentine's Day and Mother's Day. So between regular career jobs or on extra holidays, it was always easy to pick up a little bit of work here and there and always keep that little love alive. And in 2019, I went back to school to get my bachelors in Science for Business Management. And at that time, I was like, “Well, I need to do something that can be completely flexible around this schedule,” and at the time one of my mentors advised me, “Well, okay, what are you passionate about that you think you do really well, that wouldn't wear you out, that you know you can just turn the key and go?” And I'm like, “Well floral design. But that doesn't sound really lucrative.” And they just encouraged me enough to where I took the plunge and started, like, announcing “Coming Soon” on YouTube and stuff like that. And as, slowly over the years since 2019 ‘til now, it's actually a profitable business.
Passionistas: That's amazing. And you do such incredible work, like you say, floral design, and everyone thinks, like, “Oh, yeah, you know, pretty bouquet of roses or something.” Which, nothing wrong with that. But your floral design is art. It's really, really, really, really gorgeous.
Holly: Thank you.
Passionistas: And in addition to the floral shop, you do stuff like corporate orders and weddings and parties and things like that. So tell us what inspires you about that kind of work.
Holly: Yeah. Oh, so it's a lot. It requires all the finesse of project management, and usually in a short amount of time. We just had an order in December that came in through text on a Friday night for a 500 employee banquet the next Thursday. And it was a Hail Mary, because it was right before Black Friday. And like, so the assistant for--it was, like, a manufacturing or real estate developer--they were going to have a corporate party at this really fancy restaurant in my area, and they couldn't, none of the other florists would take it. And I'm like, “You know, if we can come to terms, and I can send you an invoice that you're willing to pay the deposit on by Sunday, I can guarantee my staff enough to be able to complete this order.” So it was this, like, crazy mix of back and forth, and they were--and it was a couple of ladies that were heading up the decorations for this. So of course, they're way more clued and cued into the exact colors and everything. And with Black Friday, it was, like, we could only source from local shops. There's no way to get, like--Amazon overnight delivery wasn't even happening at that point. And so it was a lot of fun, because it was like this impossible Hail Mary task and for an event, and to, you know, take their inspiration photos that they found off of Pinterest, go source the materials, get it approved by them, and then get them the prototype out as quick as I could, it was a lot of fun. It was just a little crazy for a minute.
Passionistas: And how many people did you pull together to make that happen?
Holly: There was about five people all together. And it was a touch and go, so it was like, "Okay, I got, I got this inquiry. What's your week look like? Okay, I got the bid out to you then. How's your schedule? Still looking.” And then I was like, “I got the deposit. Let's put in the time in now.” So one of my favorite assistants even would come up before, you know, like after her lunch, before she went home after work, just to help. The little things all add up. So she was like, scrubbing the price tags off, clipping things, like--you know, you don't think about, like, every piece of this material is gonna come with some sort of tag on it that has to come off. And there's, like, thousands of small pieces that you have to put together. So it was fascinating to add up all her hours at the end, and I think it was only, like, nine or ten hours. But what a difference it made where I wasn't the one having to, like, scrub off stickers to make sure that it wasn't showing.
Passionistas: Yeah, that is probably one of my least favorite household tasks. I have, I have, like, a cabinet full of mugs that still have half a sticker on the bottom.
I bought a new set of glasses right before Christmas, and they all had the sticker, like, right on the bottom, the whole thing. It was--and I just, like, threw them in the dishwasher with the sticker on, hoping that they would, like, steam off or something. And my husband's like, “Why did you put those in the dishwasher?”
Holly: Did it work?
Passionistas: No, it did not work, but my husband is fabulous, and he scraped them all off for me.
Holly: Oh, good guy. Thank you, husband.
Passionistas: Yeah, that’s a keeper. That’s a keeper right there. Anyway, we digress.
Holly: No, I mean that's actually--when it comes to design and that extra help, my significant other is amazing, and he lets me use all the tools that he has. And so he's teaching me how to use drills and, like, saws and heat guns. And so my, like, arsenal for being able to create things is just, like, exponentially increased in ability due to that.
Passionistas: Wow, that's amazing. And it seems really necessary, because we were watching a video that you do, that you did of one of your photo shoots. And we'll add a link to it on our website, but it was of a photo shoot, and you had flowers all down the side of a woman's face.
Holly: Yeah, I think that--was it, was it in blue? A blue theme?
Holly: Yeah, that was one of the most recent ones. So it was Mrs. WestWind, like a WindMaker theme. Yeah, that was a good one.
Passionistas: It's so amazing, and I've never seen anything like that. So talk about your process for--explain to everybody what it is, and what is your process for creating a piece like that?
Holly: Yeah, so I tend to call it “floral fusion.” So when people are asking me about it, they don't know how to describe it. And it--this is a really good example, because that model that approached me that wanted to collaborate was like, “Well, I wanted to be like this and like this. And I've seen it here,” and she's like, “And I don't know what to call it.” It's like, “Well, I use the term floral fusion for it if that helps.” And so then it made it so she could, like, package it and explain her, like, kind of request in it. So with floral fusion, I love to find ways--and I haven't even scratched the surface. Like, I just ordered a book on “Eat Your Flowers,” flower, like, incorporating flowers into food. But I like to see how I can incorporate that into fashion, into food, you know, everything above and beyond just the flowers in a vase thing. And so with that, it's kind of, like, high fashion flowers. I also did a couple of full body mannequins for “Fleurs de Villes.” And so that's, in French, “the flowers of the cities.” And they're a disruptor company run by women that travel all over the world, and they'll do these events where the florist in the area dress up these mannequins in all flowers. And so I'd had some experience with that since 2019. And so taking that and then putting it on to real people is the next step. And so I've done little pieces here and there, but different from a mannequin, like, they have to move, and they have to be able to get back out of it. And so I just bought one of those sewing mannequins where it has adjustable body pieces, and I'm so excited to get a full dress in flowers, because that's been a huge request from the local creators, the photographers, and the models since they saw it on a mannequin. So with her, there is an 1800s painting called “Venus,” and on the left hand side of the painting, there's these two characters that are zephyr or, like, wind gods. And so the theme of this one was to have her be one of those zephyrs. And so the hair veil is, like, two clips with this really, like--I think it was like a twelve foot white veil on it. And so I put flowers going from each clip all the way down, like in a three foot loop around the back. And then I did body flowers that went on the side of her face to try to make it look like it was almost all one piece. And then from there, I just added on a wrist corsage for her to give her, like, a three accessory costume piece for that vision.
Passionistas: So, so, so, so beautiful. So now, these photo shoots that you do, you collaborate with photographers and models, and is it the purpose mainly for like their portfolio, so they have this art piece? Or is there, is there other purpose for doing the photo shoots?
Holly: I think that would be the primary purpose. We use the term TFP or “Trade For Photos” a lot of times. So usually, it's a collaborative group effort, and then the results of it, as all of us share it on our social media profiles, we do our best to tag and name the credits of all the people involved. I have had people that will want quotes for these things. I haven't had anyone--because it is pretty spendy, the amount of time and materials--I haven't had anybody actually buy it, but I put out probably about six quotes now related to people seeing things online and wanting to know if they could get it.
Passionistas: I mean, I understand that it may be pricey, but it is--and we'll get some photos for Holly, from Holly in addition to linking out to her website, and we'll post them on our website as well--but these things are gorgeous. And I would imagine, like, if you're spending a ton of money on a wedding anyway, like, you--one of the things that I wanted to ask you about is the shawls that you make. Because if I were a bride, I would have a shawl made, and I would have a bunch of wedding photos taken with the shawl. I'm already spending a ton of money on the flowers for the wedding anyway. So describe the shawls, and is that an idea that you came up with, or had you seen those? Were you inspired by someone else's work?
Holly: I think you're talking about the one where it's really golden and looks like—okay, yeah. So I wanted to do a sage theme. And sage is a hard one, because when you're dealing with the archetypes, a lot of them are easily recognizable. But Sage is kind of one of those ones where it's, like, half in between a wizard, half in between, like, a queen. You know? And so that was the whole concept for that one. And I hadn't seen shawls like that anywhere else before, but it--the, like, cape type thing that I found that was in all gold--it looked like that particular costume that I wanted that would match, like, a sage theme for the model, would go really well with a shawl of flowers. So just from each shoulder and around the back and slightly to the front of the shoulders. And so with that, I take, like, a thin, like, one-eighth inch foam--you know, it's kind of like a yoga mat, but a little bit lighter weight--and then put the flowers on that and attach that to the cape. People could just do the shawl on its own, and then it could connect in the front, you know, with some sort of a ribbon or have some sort of, like, shoulder piece that helps secure it over the shoulder. That was a really fun one. That's a beautiful one. I actually started writing my first book, and I might put one of those photos on the front of it. Because there's one scene that I set designed with her in it, where I put this really old cool looking book in her lap. And so she's sitting there with, you know, all these flowers in her hair and this shawl piece, and then has this cool old book in her lap too.
Passionistas: Oh, that's amazing. Okay, there's, like, four more follow-ups in that sentence. Let's start with set design. You said you said that a few times. So tell us about the set design that you do for these photo shoots.
Holly: Yeah, yeah. So if someone doesn't already know what they want for it, but they have, they're like, “Ok, I have a model. I'm the photographer.” Or, you know, maybe they don't already have the theme or the wardrobe or anything like that, you can kind of help them figure out what mood they're going for. If they're doing something more than just a blank background, then it involves props or, you know, certain kinds of backdrops. And so with set design, I utilize my--I did one year at Seattle School of Visual Concepts, and so I utilized a lot of that ability in trying to help pick pieces and backdrops. And usually, the photographers have the lighting figured out, but to help it all come together to give a unified feeling or, you know, era or, you know, color.
Passionistas: It's so fun. Did you ever imagine when you, you know, wrote that essay about wanting to be a florist, that you'd be able to expand that interest into so many different areas?
Holly: Had not a clue. I thought at that point in my life that floral design just meant, like, flowers in a vase, or maybe a bride's bouquet. That was my complete exposure to flowers as a child.
Passionistas: And the other thing that you, that's the thing I'm most in love with of all the things I've seen--and I told you we were going to fangirl out on you--but is the wings that you create...?
Holly: Oh, the botan wings? Yeah.
Passionistas: So can you describe those, and how did you think of those?
Holly: Yeah, that was another collaboration. And so I have it in the Etsy shop for sale as “botanical costume wings,” and I wanted to do, like, an angel theme. And so I was like, “Okay, well, the wings are no brainer. The hard part was the dress and the body flowers.” But the wings were, I think only, like, maybe forty dollars. They were based of, like, cardboard and feathers that we got off of Amazon. And then I pulled in one of my assistants to do the majority of, like, pampas grass on it. And then we put dried roses and silk roses and flowers on it as well, with some amaranthus, like--but if people don't know what that is, it's, like, a really droopy flower that's fuzzy. Like, it looks like a tail, an animal's tail--and so we put those on the end of it and had the model wear those over the dress, and then put enough flowers over the top where you couldn't see the straps holding it on. And I, there's so many photos. I need to really put some time on the calendar to get them in some of my drop ship print on demand gift collections, ‘cause those wings, and even the photos I took on my cell phone is doing just behind the scenes stuff of those wings, it just all turned out incredible.
Passionistas: And is so this is something that people buy from you?
Holly: No one's bought them yet. But they're--
Passionistas: Not yet. Okay. But they’re out for sale.
Holly: Yeah, Etsy has this, is like, “So and so put this in their shopping cart. So and so favorited this item and those, that, those botanical wings are actually one of the, like, items that gets the most action on the Etsy shop.
Passionistas: Oh, they're so—they're really just so gorgeous.
Yeah, it's just a matter of time before--A: before they're in a huge magazine. Like, I just picture--I know they don't do the, I don't, I know they don't do the Victoria's Secret runway thing anymore, but, like--I just picture these supermodels in them, and then once people see them, they're gonna--everybody's going to want them for their wedding and their, you know, special events. They're just, they're beautiful, and I've never seen anything like your work before.
Holly: Oh, thank you. That's actually exciting. That inspires me to make some more beautiful things. They are priced like actual appropriately for what it would cost. And that's another reason why no one's probably bought it yet. And I just secured a warehouse space too. So I actually have the space to just leave them at the correct price and let him sit there until somebody wants them. If I ever need to, you know, make more space, I can always reduce the price down, but it's fun to just have all that stuff in the studio ready.
Passionistas: Yeah, yeah. You'll find your people. The people are out there that are willing to pay for them because they're so worth it. They're so beautiful. And you mentioned the warehouse space. We wanted to ask you about that. So you've just expanded into a warehouse. So tell us about that process.
Holly: So excited about that. I have been looking for places off-site out of my garage to be able to scale up, because it's fine if I know, you know, some of the assistants I've had working here personally, and I'm not so worried about it, but trying to bring in gig workers or complete strangers that I found, you know, apps and resources for all this, to pull that in, to really scale up, I was like, “I need off site.” And so I found one finally that was in my area only 15 minutes away, and this was two years ago. Two and a half now. So they are so popular that you would get on a waitlist, and they would send a mass e-mail out the minute one of the spaces would open up, and everyone that was interested in it would respond with, like, their credit card number. So whoever got their credit card number to this company fast enough. And I went through at least three iterations, and I was like, “Oh, I didn't get it this time. Oh, didn't get it that time.” And finally, they had another one in January, early January--no early December. And that mass e-mail went out, and I was like, “Credit card number! I want that one.” And two weeks later, they responded with, “Okay, here's the paperwork.” And I'm like, “Ahhh!” So it has free Wi-Fi, it has a conference room where I could, you know, get people together if we wanted to collab and, like, screen share things and sit there and have coffee. It has a little lounge area. It has the restrooms. My space personally is just this, like 400 square foot box of a warehouse space within other boxes of warehouse space. But every time I go there, it's like the most happiest thing, which doesn't seem like it would be, but I think it's cause of all the potential it represents.
Passionistas: Yeah, and ‘cause you're around other collaborative creative people, which is so cool. Do you tend to work with, like, the same photographers and stuff? Do you have a team that you like to, the creative team you like to work with?
Holly: I have a few that are kind of, like, the first “origin story photographers,” is what I tell them. And so, so my significant other is an awesome photographer. He, all his camera equipment is actually made for race cars, ‘cause he's a rally race car driver. But he was sweet enough that when I was like, “Hey, I got a photoshoot with a model. Would you be interested?” He's actually done a lot of those photos too, but there's some Face group, groups of collected, like, creators, where there's a bunch of them, just, like, hundreds of them. And so I think 20, late 20—no, summer of 2019 was our very first photo shoot with some of the people that I met through these groups, and it's just built from there. I actually have to be careful and really selective now about what I signed up for. So all of the ones that I've worked with prior to this year, I told them, “Okay, you can come use my space for free. You know, just tell other people if you can that might actually wanna, like, give me a tip or something like that.” And so there's probably about five of them that have a closer orbit. And then from there, I'll be meeting a lot of new ones now that I actually have a year-round indoor warm space where people aren't freezing, to be able to do this.
Passionistas: So does the warehouse space have photography space too? Do you shoot there as well, or do you just build the floral designs?
Holly: No, it's actually big enough to where we can have a photography space. So I took all of our starter equipment, so we got backdrops and reflectors and all of that. So I took all of our stuff there, and then I'll probably slowly be adding some extra that I've gotten requests for from a couple of photographers that have taken tours. And so they're like, “Okay, well, this is actually really nice. Do you think you'd ever be, you know, putting this light type of thing in there, that would just be there to use?” And so I have a list to be able to start--once I get the floral workshop all in there--then I can start buying some of that other equipment that the photographers would be able to come in and use.
Passionistas: That's perfect.
Holly: It'll be, it'll be really great. Yeah, especially with the free Wi-Fi.
Passionistas: Yeah, and isn't that amazing? That's like, such a deal breaker at this point, you know?
Holly: I saw a Maslow's hierarchy comic that someone had hand written on the bottom, and it said, “Electricity, Wi-Fi,” and then the rest of it. I like, “Oh. That's so perfect.”
Passionistas: That is perfect. Like so, you mentioned that you're writing a book. Tell us about that.
Holly: Oh, I'm super excited about it. So I'm calling it “Flower Code” for now, thanks to my sibling who is, he works in machine learning, and I think it's also--and he if he sees this, apologies, bro--it's like research and development and machine learning and everything. He has, like, an engineering degree. But when I was telling him about the book I started writing, he was like. “Well, what if you called it ‘Flower code?’ And what if you made ‘Code’ look like a computer code?” and so we played together on the app, and I was sending him screenshots. So for now, I'm gonna go with that as the name. It is inspired by the very first anime I saw when I was probably four or five years old, and it was called “Hana no Ko Lunlun.” And it was this little girl that would travel around in adventures with her cat and her dog, and she had magic jewelry, and what little girl doesn't love magic jewelry, right? So when she would point it out of flower, it would change her outfit for her next adventure to, like, match whatever she would need for the next adventure. And I think she was in a search to, like, find her grandmother or something. As--I've had to start talking about this since I started writing, and I'm like, “Okay, now it's time to go rewatch those.” It’s been a few decades, so it could have been someone else, you know, that she was trying to find. But it has that feature.
So she--this character is, like, traveling through space and time, like a multiverse type of situation. And then it ties in with “The Language of Flowers.” So I--when I first picked the mission statement for “ANatural Design,” which is connecting you to nature through the language of flowers, I didn't even know that “The Language of Flowers” was a thing. I watched a movie last year that was like, “Enola Holmes.” It was like, one of the recent ones was, like, Sherlock Holmes's little sister. And so her sweetheart guy that liked her in the first film was, like, sketching flowers and all about flowers. And like, that's really cool, but why, why do they have the guy doing that? Typically, stereotypically, it's the girl. And then I ran across, when I started researching for the book, that in the 1800s, people codified meanings for flowers. It's the whole thing. And I'm just so excited. So in my book, this character that's inspired from the anime is tying in stories where the meaning of the flower that has been codified since 1800s comes into play, and the whole storyline is about exemplifying it in action. So like, one of my favorite stories is currently that I haven't, like, rewritten is of the basil flower. And the basil flower and the meaning is hate. And so I was like, “Okay, well, how do you spin that into something positive?” So it has her, like, changing this evil queen's heart by creating this bouquet and, like, trying to tell the queen, like, “Your people hate you.” But trying to do it in a politically savvy way. And so it has her like, “Should I put basil in here, or should I not? Should I?” And she's like, “Okay, I'm just going for it.” She puts the basil in, and then she goes and presents the queen with this bouquet. And because it was, like, the first time any of the, you know, not servants, but like, the kingdom’s people, like, actually did something bold like that, it made the queen laugh. And she was like, “Wow, I didn't think anyone could actually use hate in something so beautiful.” And then it, like, softened the queen's heart. Like, the message got to her that her people didn't like her. And so she kind of changed her ways because of it.
Passionistas: Wow. I am blown away. I can, like--as you're talking, I can picture, like, reading the book, and then I can picture the TV series that's gonna get made out of the series of books that you're going to write.
Holly: That would be awesome. Yeah. I have eighty percent of the first draft of the first book done. And because there's so much in it, and they're all just short stories, I was like. “Okay, let's just stop here.” I think I made it through the Hs. I might try to end on holly because, just for fun, right? And then I can carry it on from there. And then I can research even more meanings to a wider selection of flowers and just keep it going from there.
Passionistas: Will there be photos in the book of some of your creations?
Holly: Yes. Yeah. Like that first one of the sage photoshoot where it's an all gold, and she looks like royalty, where she has a book on her lap, I'm wanting that currently as the cover of the book, because it looks so magical, so mystical. And then as many of the stories that come close to some of the photoshoots that I've done. Like, there's a photoshoot where it has, like, this golden metal crown that I, like, put flowers all around. And the photographer had the model, like, holding a sword for part of it and had, like, a gold upper body piece on the dress. So she looks like a warrior queen or warrior princess, because she's wearing the crown, and she has the sword. So I was kind of thinking that one would be perfect for the basil flower where it has, like, the hard queen involved.
Passionistas: We’re Amy and Nancy Harrington, and you’re listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Holly Berry. To get connected to nature through the language of flowers, visit ANaturalDesign.com. Now, here’s more of our interview with Holly.
We want to mention that you have a Patreon so that people can directly support you.
Holly: That would be awesome.
Passionistas: We will put the link to that in the show notes as well. So, not that you haven't already talked about enough, but do you have other plans moving forward? You have a lot on your plate already.
Holly: Well, right now, because even though all of this creative, like, just invigorating stuff is the passion, on the, like normal, mainstream corporate side of things, I'm getting my project management certification. So I have that, in about six months I should have that, and that'll be a nice resume booster.
Passionistas: Well, and you're so good at that too. I mean, the reason we met you is because you collaborate with Kevin McDonald on his “Private Talk Radio” show--or “Positive Talk Radio” show. And so, talk about your work with Kevin and kind of what you do as a producer.
Holly: I would be happy to. Yep, and this is the little mug. So it's PositiveTalkRadio.net, and I met him a month or two before I graduated from my bachelor's degree, and I was looking for something to transition to that I wasn't, you know, necessarily qualified before, and just build the resume. So I noticed in the meeting that--this is for one of my other contracts I still have--he had headphones on and a really nice mic, and I'm like, “Oh, that's cool.” We're waiting for, you know, some of the other people to show up in the meeting. I’m like, “You know, why do you have such awesome gear to show up to just a paperwork meeting?” He's like, “Oh, well, I have a podcast.” And I'm like, “Oh, that's so fun. So I listen to some of the episodes. I was like, “He's really cool. What a nice guy.” And then I emailed him, like, “Hey, if you'd ever like me to show up on your podcast, I'd be happy to. I just listened to this one, and it was really fun.” And at that time, he was actually--and I didn't know it, but--he's actually looking for trying to onboard people to help him make his show, you know, grow and become more polished and professional. And I was like, “Well, I'm about ready to graduate. Like, I'd be happy to see about helping.” And so it was kind of that natural transition where we both had that opportunity, and we're both looking for the similar things that matched each other's, you know, place in life and skills. He loves to interview people that are trying to make the world better in some sort of way or have a positive message. And he loves to talk. Well, see, he has the exact thing you need to be able to get on screen on a microphone five days a week. It blows my mind. So I think he's over four hundred episodes now, and that was in late ‘21 where he decided to go with relaunching “Positive Talk Radio.” He originally had done it in, like, 2003, long, long time ago. He still has all those archived on CDs. He's actually starting to burn those and get them, like, up online, so people can start listening to their original--I call it PTR--PTR episodes. And it's just been a blast. It's been so much fun, and that's actually, you know, how I meet amazing people like you, Amy and Nancy.
Passionistas: Yeah, it was so much fun to be a guest on it. We've been on several times. Kevin is so wonderful. And you guys are both so supportive of The Passionistas project, which we love. So we thank you for that, and we look forward to many, many more guest spots on the show so. So let's talk a little bit about nature, because you're obviously so inspired by nature. Why do you think it's important for people to look beyond the car and the office and the homes and experience nature as much as possible?
Holly: I think when they do that, they think twice about their impact. And our society here, at least, you know, in America, is so geared towards boxing people in and stuff, and it's just, like, this default. You know, originally it started by just survival and then convenience. And so we live in boxes--we live in houses. We transit in boxes--cars, trains, planes. We work in boxes--most of us, not all of us. You know? But we're so sheltered and so enclosed that we kind of lose that connection with this ball that we all live on. And we don't, you know, understand--unless you go out of your way to educate yourself on the impact you have to that--you, you have no clue. We, like--just to figure out how to recycle plastic wrap where we live here, I had to go on four different websites, and one of them, like, had a listing. But it said, “We don't upkeep this list. You know, you have to actually check these locations. When we posted this location, it existed.” And so then I went to, like, three different locations and finally found one that still had the bin where you could deposit the plastic wrap. And it's just little things like that. It's not easy.
Passionistas: Yeah, that's for sure. And I love that you, you also say, like, you like to keep flowers and plants in your, in your home, that they, you know. What do you kind of feed off of when it comes to flowers and plants just being in your environment every day?
Holly: Well, emotionally, it relaxes me. And physically, like, they help filter the air. So a lot of you know that increased oxygen when you walk into a greenhouse, or even if you're at, you know, a big box store like Home Depot. If you walk into their garden center area, if it's not all outdoors, you can actually feel, like, the difference in oxygen levels. So it has a really positive effect on your health as well as your emotional state. There's studies that have come out where people that had PTSD actually had, like, marked noticeable healing that just came from sitting in nature, like on a routine basis.
Passionistas: Oh, that's incredible.
Holly: Yeah, it, yeah, it's amazing.
Passionistas: So why is it important for you--you and Kevin support women's causes a lot on your show. So why is it important for you to support other women in business?
Holly: I believe it's because the world would be a better place if things, if there weren't glass ceilings, if there was equal pay. There's other studies that the, especially the Euro area nations have done, and their, like, happiness levels that are, like, surveyed are some of the highest-ranking ones, you know, in the whole world where there's that equality.
Passionistas: Yeah, it's crazy that people don't understand that it's a positive thing to have everybody have, you know, working on the same level playing field. Hopefully we'll get there someday.
Holly: I'm hopeful as well, especially now that information so easily shared, and that there are studies that prove that it is a positive thing.
Passionistas: Yeah, and I also think that more because of the “Me Too” movement and things like that, people, men are more aware of the fact that women are still struggling. And I think what happened with, you know, the Roe vs. Wade Decision I think opened a lot of eyes, you know, I think that from the perspective of, “Oh that actually affects men directly too.” That kind of lit a fire in a lot of a lot of men to fight for women's causes, which is, we'll take it any way we can get it.
Holly: One cool tip--’cause one of my current passions and one of my contracts, because I am multi-industry sector licensed and working with contracts with different companies, but one of them is a financial brokerage. And the thing that I love that I ran across as far as couples trying to figure out finances--’cause that's a struggle. And when in America, when the women make less statistically than men overall by a pretty big percent. And then you get into these situations where the guy’s like, “No, we have to split things fifty-fifty.” Or even if the girl’s saying that, but she can't bring in fifty-fifty. I loved the scenario that someone suggested that I read about, and it said, “Take a percent.” So take all the money you have coming in and--with the, you know, roof over the head that you're sharing, or the electricity, or the food or whatever--split that percent. So then look at your incomes. What percent of that overall money coming in does the girl bring in, or the guy or, you know, the couple, either way? And whoever brings in forty percent pays forty percent of that, whoever brings in sixty percent pays sixty percent. And I didn't hear that 'til later in life. I'd heard a lot of other situations and examples and people saying, “Well, this kind of works for us, and that kind of works for us.” But when I ran across that and tried it, that actually works. Like, then you can look at, “Okay, my housing, our housing should never be twenty percent total, but within that twenty percent, this person can bring in ten, you know, or fifteen. And this other person can bring in, you know, ten or fifteen. And divvy it up just percent.”
Passionistas: That's brilliant.
Holly: I thought so too. I was like, “That, that's a workable model. That makes sense.”
Passionistas: Yeah, ‘cause I don't think people understand. It's not for lack of trying that we're bringing in less. You know? We--what was this thing we posted the other day, Nan, like, women get assigned ten percent more work.
Holly: I saw that, and I was like, “I've lived that.” If not, more than ten percent.
Passionistas: Yeah. And not only do we get paid less, but they expect us to work more.
Holly: Yeah, and it's, it's so interesting, ‘cause looking at your biases and just, like, even self-assessing, it's hard to recognize, ‘cause it's so subtle. Like, you really have to, like, put your thinking cap on and put different hats for different people and situations that you've been in on and see your reactions, your gut reactions, to it. Because if you've been raised a certain way, if you've been raised completely surrounded in, like, misogyny or something like that, it's subconscious. You're not even aware of the little things you're doing that might move something in a certain direction. So self-awareness and trying to, like, always learn and grow I think is really important.
Passionistas: Well, I also think it's interesting--this is the, I'm having a total Oprah lightbulb moment in this conversation--but it was also interesting because we are taught that we need to be strong and independent and be able to take care of ourselves. So for me, that means I have to be able to cover myself a hundred percent. That I can't--I, you know, even if I'm sharing expenses with someone else, it's like, “Yes, but I want to know that I can pay a hundred percent of those bills.” So it wouldn't even have occurred to me to be like, “Right, but if I'm bringing in X percentage of the income simply, simply because of society, you know, not for lack of hard work, I need to cut myself some slack.” That that's an okay perspective to look at.
Yeah. That’s really interesting.
Holly: Burnout is really easy, especially in a lot of the workforce. Social models, you know, historically over the past fifty years, it's too easy to get burnt out. When, right before I went back to school, I left a, like, full time management job, but it was in an industry where it's 24/7. It was, like, kind of first responder. And so I had been doing that for at least five years, where even if the phone rang at 2:00 AM, I was still expected to be back at 8:00 AM. And it took me about two years to recover from chronic fatigue, and I didn't even know that was a thing. I was, like, laying in bed, researching things about being tired all the time. So be kind and, to yourself, people. Like, don't feel like you have to do it all.
Passionistas: Yeah. And Amy and I were just talking yesterday about, everyone is experiencing that right now. Like, none of us are really focusing on how difficult the last few years have been for everyone. You know, the pandemic and lockdown and the politics and everything. It's just been, you know, it's been traumatic for all of us. And I don't think anyone really talks truly about how burnt out everyone is. You know, we're supposed to be like, “Okay, pandemic's over, everybody back to normal life.” It's like, “No, no, we're tired. We're burnt out. We're emotionally traumatized. And how do we heal?” You know?
Holly: Yeah, it takes time to unpack that. And that's part of the reasons why, at least over here on the west coast, a lot of people I know are having a hard time even finding counselors that can take any new patients. So life coaches are getting a lot of business right now too. But yeah, seeking out resources to help work through things like that, that where you're stuck are really important. Yeah. I lost my dad to COVID in 2021. We--and there's two other deaths in the family that year, too, so my brother and I ended up doing a lot of dual traveling together. And we're still kind of unpacking that and, like, checking in with each other and being like, “Hey, how you doing?”
Passionistas: I'm sorry to hear about your dad. That's terrible. I'm glad you have your brother to, has that support system.
Holly: Yeah, coming, seeking out friends and family in situations like that--’cause it can be a natural tendency to, like, just hide or distance yourself from people. And so fighting that a little bit, even if it's just reaching out and telling someone, “Hey, I'm thinking about you today,” that can start conversations, and that can start healing.
Passionistas: Yeah, and I think especially because of COVID, we're so used to now not being able to seek each other out. You know, it's like, it's compounded by kind of that natural instinct, when you have a loss, to isolate anyway. But then we're all in this mode where we isolate. That's what we do.
Holly: Yeah, and that's okay for a little bit, but at some point, you know, humans are social creatures, and some of the only ways that we can heal are by talking to someone outside of ourselves.
Passionistas: So this is a big loaded question, but what's your dream for women?
Holly: My dream for women. I don't know if I've ever put a label, just, like, saying, "Okay, women.” And then my dream for them. That's a cool one. I like that. I would have to actually think about it. I mean, I could say like, “What's my dream for humanity?” Like, I thought about that. Like, I would love to see the like, the, big corporations that have the power to see how close they can get to, like, a neutral, full circle use of the resources on the planet. I would love to see that there are basic cost of living resources for every population, so, you know, you know you can go to the ER without getting a 10,000 dollar bill. You know that you can get food, you can get housing. When I first moved to Washington, like, I got a car shortly thereafter, but I ended up living in my car for a week or two, you know. And it's having just the minimum, like, household things that make you feel safe and protected. You know, that type of stuff. I would love to see things like that in place for humanity. Because globally, we have enough resources, way beyond enough resources to make that happen for humanity. You know, some basic education that isn't useless would be really nice. Things like that, yeah.
Passionistas: Yeah, that's a good one. I like that.
Holly: One, I guess in America for women, I would love, love, love to see that there is, like, at least an equal ratio of women represented in power positions as men. That would make me super happy.
Passionistas: Yeah, and that when they're in those power positions, that they actually are given the authority and the power and, yeah.
Holly: That actually, maybe that would be the answer to the question, would be, like, that kind of equal power for women in our country.
Passionistas: Yeah, I think that's really critical and still amazingly so far behind in where it where it should be. What advice would you give your younger self?
Holly: I would give my younger self a few tips, and I hope this helps other girls out there. If you were raised in an environment that was devoid of trust and respect, study those. Learn about those. Because you're going to have to learn from the outside in. You, if you were not innately socialized with those two key components that make relationships last, you're going to have to do the work to learn about it from the outside in. So read books by, like, the Gottman Institute. You know, educate yourself. And then slowly in your environment, as you start to recognize those behaviors from other people, those are the relationships you want to feed. You want to give those types of relationships your time and attention, ‘cause that's going to take you so far in life. That's, you know, going to help make you safer, help make you happier and healthier. That would be number one. Number two probably would be, learn about money. So if you are any, if you got any kind of high school education like I got, you learned, you know, some basic math. They had us do one example about how to trade stocks once for, like, a month. And there was no education on money. And money is--the minute you step out that door, you get in a car, you get on a bus, like, you have to use this stuff. You're literally forced to operate in a society where that is the interaction of almost every point of contact that you're, outside of your friend, even in your house, because you have to pay for that too. So learn about money, make that a thing, a time and an effort that you also learn about. I can keep going.
Passionistas: Yeah, that's one of those, that's one of those things they should teach you in school, right? It just blows my mind that that is not something that you get taught in school. It's just finances. How to open a bank account, how to get a credit card, balance your checkbook. You know? Why don't we get taught that?
Holly: I don't think I learned what the term “passive income” was until, like, maybe twenty years ago or so. Fifteen, twenty years ago. It was not even in my world or scope or landscape. I had no clue what that was. Yeah, the next one I would say is, learn about nutrition. So if you are not in a in a school where they teach you anything beyond a basic nutrition class, go, like, find actual--there's like, we have an institute here called the Bastyr Institute. And they're, like, a trustworthy point of contact. But find ways to educate yourself about nutrition, because that will affect what you put in your mouth. And what you put in your mouth, like, that affects your entire life, just like your knowledge of money. So I, when I was twenty, I think twenty-five or twenty-six, I was working full-time, going to school full-time. And all of a sudden, you know, when you get past those teen years, like, your body's metabolism slows down. And I was like, “Whoa, I just gained twenty pounds.” Like, I wasn't doing anything different, but it was that natural, you know, progression that happens when you age. And so luckily, I was in healthcare related classes at the time, and I was like, “Okay, well, if I can do one thing--and that's all I have the bandwidth to do right now--what one thing can I do that will help with this issue? This weight gain issue?” And I thought about it for a while, and I’m like, “Okay. The one thing I know I can do, that would be hard but doable, is I just will choose not to eat food where they have put sugar into the food.” And I lost that weight plus an extra ten pounds--and without exercise, because I didn't even have time to exercise at that point. And so that would be the other advice that I might have even given my younger self, so I didn't even get to the point where I had to learn the hard way, is educate yourself about nutrition and food and eating habits.
Passionistas: Yeah, that's a really good one. The sugar thing is key. And it's really hard for a sugar addict like myself, but I try. I try.
Holly: Well, and yeah, and we all are. I mean, I--there's gotta be so many studies I want to send you links to. But there's studies where they've done brain scans, and pure white--you know, processed sugar, like table sugar--just the straight sucrose or glucose like that shows up as, like, cocaine in someone’s brain. The brain fires just as it does when someone does cocaine, so it's addicting.
Passionistas: We went yesterday morning. We had an appointment that ended up getting cancelled, and we ended up together. So we, there's a new bakery down the street. We’re like, “Let's just cheat and have a split, split some muffins.” And I was buzzed all day. Like, it just was that, like, humming in my head all day. ‘Cause I try not to eat, you know, that kind of sugar all the time, but.
And woke up in the middle of the night with a headache.
Holly: Oh, yeah, that's the thing. Yep.
Passionistas: Yeah, it's really, really brutal.
Holly: Or the sugar crash. That's what—sometimes, I'll be polite when people give me something if I just can't muster the “no, thank you,” because I don't want to hurt their feelings. They might have hand made it or something. And if it has that sugar in it, I'll need a nap within two hours.
Passionistas: It's worth it sometimes, though.
Holly: Birthdays, anniversaries...
Passionistas: Yeah, I definitely still struggle with the, like, “Oh, you brought home another cookie. Alright, I'll just have a little bite.”
Yeah, it's a hard habit. It's a hard habit to break, for sure.
What's your definition of success?
Holly: My definition of success is when you’ve found the perfect balance. So for me, it's a work-life balance. And other people struggle with different balances. It might be a kids-work balance or a school-significant other balance. You know, like, people that are in med school and stuff like that, if they have a significant other, like, they might not see each other for two weeks at a time. So in my mind it's finding that perfect work life balance and also having a way that you're tracking and on time retirement. Because through my work at the financial brokerage, there's a crisis in America right now where fifty percent of the people that are currently working and trying to retire are not going to have enough money to retire. And so--and there's all kinds of apps that you can use to help track and be on time for retirement. But having that wheel turning and being able to know that that is on track to hit an age at some point where you don't have to punch a clock for someone else, and then also having a work life balance, is like this juggling act. Because it's three huge balls that, if you can't keep them moving, and you can't keep them going, like, you're not going to be successful. But if you can keep juggling with those, if you can learn how to make them work with each other and flow where you're not dropping any one of them at any particular time, then you're doing it right. You're successful. You're not going to hit chronic fatigue for two years, like I did.
Passionistas: It's a hard lesson to learn, for sure. And I think, again, we don't have those retirement conversations and tools put in place when we're young. Either it's one of those things. Like, if you start putting away money when you're twenty-two years old, you're ahead of the game, and you're, nine times out of ten, you're going to be fine. But they don't teach us to do that. So it's another important educational element, I think.
Holly: Big time. Yeah, huge. Yeah, it surprises me that within our culture, the older--it's just not normal. I know there's other, like, subcultures or, like, immigrant cultures where it might be more normal, but just in the ones that I was raised in, which is like, farmers, you know, three generations back. It was like, farmers from Minnesota, and before that at some point, people came over, you know, from Germany and stuff. The conversations about money, along with other things you know, like sex, drugs, whatever, but money is for some reason in that no-go zone, where a lot of times, the grandparents or the parents don't talk about money or what they're learning, or what they learn they did wrong, and now they're doing something better. And they don't, like, pass on that knowledge. It's really fascinating to me that that's such a dead zone for conversations.
Passionistas: Yeah, it's--yeah, it's, you’re taught, “It's not polite. It's not polite conversation.”
Passionistas: Yeah. And everybody I know was raised that way in our generation. That's interesting.
Do you have a mantra that you live by?
Holly: A short one. I do, kind of, yeah. So sometimes when I'm, like, waking up or going to sleep, I'll just kind of like, say to God or the universe or, you know, whatever anyone else believes in, I'll just be like, “Help me, like, help me, put me where you want me today. Help me to do the things that are the best, you know, optimal experience for how I can make the world a better place.” And I think, by checking in with that--and it's not, like, a scripted mantra, but--just checking in and, like, not putting my head down and working and trying to check mark off boxes mindlessly just to, like, power through things. Then it helps me be more aware of my environment. Because--and this is a cool Oprah one too--she was like, “The universe, you know, will talk to you. But in my experience, it talks to you by a whisper. And if you don't listen, then it's a tap on the shoulder. And if you don't listen, then, you know, it's like, face slap or shove or something like that. And then if you still don't listen, you hit a brick wall.” And I've kind of found that to be true, is like, even if you're doing things for good intentions, and you're like, “I'm a good person, I'm doing this for a good intention,” like, it logically makes all the sense. But if you don't kind of stop and check in and try to realize there's things, you know, a whole network of a universe and all these other people and things in it around you--so there's always going to be things you don't know--you might miss something that is the better way or the better choice or the better path, because you're just being completely logical.
Passionistas: Yeah, very, very true. What's your proudest achievement on your journey so far?
Holly: The bachelor’s. I never thought I would have a bachelor’s. I have dyslexia, and so just getting through, like, schools, high school and things like that, was challenging. Luckily, things are a lot easier than they used to be, you know, when I was younger. But then getting through my associate’s was super hard, because I was also working the entire time. It was all in, like, nursing classes, because I thought I was going to go into nursing. So anatomy and physiology and rote memorization and having to memorize the spellings of mitochondria and all the other cool things—that, it was super hard. But I made it through that. And then going back and, like, trying to do my bachelor’s, I didn't know if I would be able to actually get it or finish it, but I always had, like, this thirst and this drive and this, and like, I was just compelled. Like, I have to, you know, in America today, it seems like this bachelor’s is a really safe zone to have on your resume. If I need to go work somewhere, at least I, you know, can try to keep myself out of the few jobs I've always said I don't want to do, like slinging burgers--even though burgers can be delicious—you know? And so I finally got through that, and it took twice. Like, I first started it in 2014, and I had to drop out because I didn't want to lose my house. So I had to go work full time. And then I finally got to go back in 2019. And finally finished it in 2021. And I've never, like, walked the stage to get the diploma. I never bought a cap and gown, but I decided for this I would, ‘cause I didn't know if I'd ever, you know, do something bigger or more. And I started crying, walking down the stage to go get the diploma. Like, I’m already starting.
Passionistas: Yeah, it's, it's a huge accomplishment, and you should be proud of yourself. And you know, it's a real great example and lesson for other people. The tenacity of going back and doing it when you were ready and were able to. So congratulations on that.
Holly: Thank you.
Passionistas: Yeah. What does the phrase “the power of passionistas” mean to you?
Holly: To me, when I hear that, I have this instant visual of, like, all these ladies hanging out and having fun and smiling and supporting each other. So on a small scale in my neighborhood, all the lady business owners that I meet, I make sure to go to their shops first. If I can replace something I normally routinely get and that's something they have, I'll go out of my way, go an extra five minutes to go to their shop. And so when I see your websites and your interviews and your Passionistas, the box, the subscription box and everything, that's what I see. And it's just like, a whole big level up, where it can be global, and it can be online.
Passionistas: Yes, thank you for that. We appreciate that. Well, that's what we're trying. Global movement, women supporting women. So hopefully we'll see that through. So one last question, just for fun. If you could pick one woman in history or a female pop culture icon and walk in her shoes for one day, who would you pick?
Holly: Janine Benyus, if I'm saying her name correctly. She wrote a book called “Biomimicry,” and she ended up creating an institute as well wrapped around it. But the whole--and I think she’s a, like a biologist by trade. I could be wrong, but—the whole concept of “Biomimicry” is looking at nature first. When you're going to engineer a part, when you're going to create a machine, or just anything, like, looking and observing the way nature solves that problem first. And if people want to look up that institute, they have the most amazing projects where people all around the world have taken that change of creation, where they went first to go see if that problem and how that problem was solved in nature, and then apply that to what they were making. And they even have, like, children's level materials. But just, all over the world, there's all kinds of groups now, that they'll post these stories about--and I think they have, like, a scholarship or grant sometimes that companies can apply for. But it makes my heart so happy to see that, because if Amazon, you know, if Facebook, if Tesla--those types of companies--were doing it like this, that means they care about the world. Like, they might say, “Okay, well, we can do it faster or cheaper this way, but that's gonna destroy a rainforest, whereas if we spend a little more time and money over here, we can accomplish the same goal and not destroy a whole rainforest.” And so she would be, she would be the one. I would love to see the people she's met and the places she's been, like, and that she could change their lives this way by writing a book and coming up with a term that explained it. Because she--I think one of the Youtubes I saw, she was like “Well, I wanted to write a book, and I wanted to write it about this, but there was no word out there for it, so I had to create a word for it. So I created Biomimicry.” and that would, that would just be incredible.
Passionistas: Well, we have come to the end of our hour, Holly. That flew by. We could talk to you forever. You are an incredible, fabulous, intelligent, brilliant soul, and we have enjoyed talking to you so much, and we can't wait to see all the amazing things that you're going to do and you are doing and are going to continue to do. So thanks for joining us today.
Holly: Thank you so much. It was amazing.
Passionistas: Thanks for listening to The Passionistas Project Podcast and our interview with Holly Berry. To get connected to nature through the language of flowers, visit ANaturalDesign com.
And be sure to visit The Passionistas Project com to sign up for our mailing list, find all the ways you can follow us on social media, and join our worldwide community of women working together to level the playing field for us all.
We'll be back next week with another Passionista who's defining her success on her own terms and breaking down the barriers for herself and women everywhere.
Until then, stay well and stay passionate.